The Best SEO Podcast: Defining the Future of Search with LLM Visibility™
The Best SEO Podcast: Defining the Future of Search with LLM Visibility™
With over 5 million downloads, The Best SEO Podcast has been the go-to show for digital marketers, business owners, and entrepreneurs wanting real-world strategies to grow online.
Now, host Matthew Bertram — creator of LLM Visibility™ and the LLM Visibility Stack™, and Lead Strategist at EWR Digital — takes the conversation beyond traditional SEO into the AI era of discoverability.
Each week, Matthew dives into the tactics, frameworks, and insights that matter most in a world where search engines, large language models, and answer engines are reshaping how people find, trust, and choose businesses. From SEO and AI-driven marketing to executive-level growth strategy, you’ll hear expert interviews, deep-dive discussions, and actionable strategies to help you stay ahead of the curve.
Whether you’re a C-suite leader, marketing professional, or founder building your brand, this podcast is your guide to understanding the evolution of SEO into LLM Visibility™ — because if you’re not visible to the models, you won’t be visible to the market.
The Best SEO Podcast: Defining the Future of Search with LLM Visibility™
AI for Amazon Sellers: SEO, Split Testing & Scale with Daniela Bolzmann
AI is revolutionizing e-commerce by enabling brands to scale product catalogs and optimize Amazon listings with unprecedented efficiency. Daniela Bolzmann shares how Mindful Goods uses artificial intelligence to transform data analysis, content creation, and split testing for seven and eight-figure brands.
• AI allows agencies to support enterprise brands with thousands of SKUs by creating template masters deployable across entire catalogs
• Split testing tools like Manager Experiments (free within Amazon), PickFu, IntelliV, and Product Pinion provide critical consumer insights
• Title testing can increase Amazon sales by up to 990% according to Mindful Goods' data
• The three pillars of Amazon success: SEO visibility, main image optimization, and product page conversion
• Data Dive offers powerful keyword analysis capabilities for Amazon listings (use code mindfulVIP for a discount)
• AI-powered synthetic avatar testing allows brands to test messaging against specific personas before spending ad dollars
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With over 5 million downloads, The Best SEO Podcast has been the go-to show for digital marketers, business owners, and entrepreneurs wanting real-world strategies to grow online.
Now, host Matthew Bertram — creator of LLM Visibility™ and the LLM Visibility Stack™, and Lead Strategist at EWR Digital — takes the conversation beyond traditional SEO into the AI era of discoverability.
Each week, Matthew dives into the tactics, frameworks, and insights that matter most in a world where search engines, large language models, and answer engines are reshaping how people find, trust, and choose businesses. From SEO and AI-driven marketing to executive-level growth strategy, you’ll hear expert interviews, deep-dive discussions, and actionable strategies to help you stay ahead of the curve.
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This is the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing, your insider guide to the strategies top marketers use to crush the competition. Ready to unlock your business full potential, let's get started.
Speaker 2:Howdy. Welcome back to another fun-filled episode of the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing. I am your host, matt Bertram. We are trying to move into Internet Marketing marketing secrets with all our handles on YouTube. So I'm going to try to start saying that, but it's going to be difficult. But thank you everyone for sticking around. I want to introduce somebody very special that has been a speaker at Amazon Accelerate. That's about right around the corner, that's coming up, and I know we talk a lot about B2B. We talk some small. We've talked a lot about SEO and LLM visibility, but I think that selling stuff online is like where it's at. That's where it all started. That's where Google's going right. They're trying to go head to head with Amazon now and own the whole funnel. So I thought it'd be great to bring on Daniela Bozeman with and I hopefully with mindfulgoodsco. Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks for being here, daniela. So we were talking a little bit about, kind of well, what everybody wants to know right is AI and how.
Speaker 2:AI is transforming our workflows and how we're doing things, and you brought up something that I hadn't heard before but makes total sense is you're able to use AI to scale catalogs, like almost indefinitely. I've also seen, actually, in some of the things with Google training, where you can with pictures, you can start putting different backgrounds on different shoes, you can have the person standing in different places, you can customize mountains behind it, like depending on where you're advertising. So from an ad creative cost like AI is transforming what's possible.
Speaker 3:Right. I mean there's a bunch of tools that are coming out on Amazon side that are focusing on how to make the ads creative process a lot easier. Our focus at Mindful Goods is helping brands really think through the conversion piece on their product page and on their storefront. So in the past we were never really able to support those larger enterprise brands that would come to us and they had, let's say, 250 or 2,500 different or 25,000 different SKUs in their catalog. For us, that was like we will be working on that till the end of time, so it would just be a hard no.
Speaker 3:But so many of them approached us because we, we, we do pull a ton of data into our process. We do a lot of split testing in our process. We create really high quality, almost direct to consumer style creatives, right, and so every brand wants that look when they're, you know, expanding from their website to Amazon, like they want to feel like the top brand and they want to put their best foot forward. We were just never able to do it as an agency, and so that's one of the most exciting pieces for us is thinking through okay, now we can essentially just create a set of masters across the catalog, depending on how many parent SKUs we're thinking about, and then we can come up with a strategy to execute on that across thousands in hours or minutes or days, instead of weeks or months that we were talking about before.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you typically work with like seven, eight figure brands, right, and so now this opens up the top end, right, because there was just like the, the amount of like grunt work that had to get done to to fill out all those product pages. Um, was was a lot of manual effort. That that AI and and automation can help replicate, and now, with also different tools and image generation, you can start to to to scale and personalize, like. That's what I really like about what AI is doing is it's allowing you to personalize stuff. And if you're thinking about, you know, having a like a photo shoot used to have to cost a ton of money, right, and and now with AI, I mean it's almost indistinguishable beyond the fingers. I mean they're working on the fingers.
Speaker 3:I have a funny example of that one. Actually, I recently did a we're working on some video content with an AI tool and it generated a hand holding a finger, you know, and it was just the weirdest scene. I was like what is happening here? But yeah, that brings up a good point. We have AI basically in every part of our process now and I think in the beginning of 2025, I think a lot of brands were kind of like whoa, we need to take a beat and just see what happens with AI, because maybe we don't need to do all of these things that we had planned for 2025. Maybe we'll save so much money if we just don't invest in this right now. Let's just wait. And now we're hitting Q3 and brands are like okay, wait a minute, we need to get this done, you know, as we're approaching Q4. And you know, if their pages aren't ready, they aren't ready for Q4. So what we're trying to educate brands on right now is that, yes, ai is one tool in the tool belt.
Speaker 3:It's allowing us to do all of these things better. It's it's allowing us to analyze data better, faster and more precise for your brand. It's allowing us to, in some cases, replace photo shoots entirely or just fill in the gaps. That's fine too, when you think about it from that perspective. That's something we've always had. We've had renders, we've had stock imagery. It's not like brands always came to us with a full catalog fresh off a photo shoot. We had to fill in the gaps and sometimes we had to make something out of nothing. So that's still happening. It's just easier to do with AI. It's easier to create better, more realistic imagery and more custom imagery. So that's definitely one of the ways. And then, like I said, on the backend, scaling catalogs is just something that's massive for us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's a new layer that everyone's adding and it's building on what was done before.
Speaker 2:And you were talking about split testing before, which you know early, early, like right when it came out right and it's like, oh, this is the smartest thing out there and like whatever it says is like that's what we're going to do and that's even what I'm hearing on, like the psychology side of open AI, of like kids are like putting, asking it questions and doing whatever it says, like and and, and it's becoming like an issue.
Speaker 2:But I can tell you the brain think of like just giving it over to a chat, gbt or quad or whatever you're using Um, it wasn't always the best. I thought it was the best. I like deferred that. Oh, it is the best. But you really still need to have a, a, a, a very senior operator behind and that knows what good looks like, cause I've tested um meta descriptions, um calls to action and and uh, it doesn't always give you the best thing. And if you go, take a site and just click a button, ai, you know, change all the matters which there's tools that you can do that now and it just auto generates it.
Speaker 2:Like I've seen some bad things happen and I've seen some things that we've had to. People have come to us that have AI'd up everything and we've had to untangle.
Speaker 3:It's basically everybody, especially us. If we're if we're helping businesses, we need to become AI engineers, like every business has to become an AI engineer if you're going to help other businesses. And that's the way I look at it. It's like it's it's all about the inputs that you're putting in. You know, if you're putting in great inputs, you're going to get some great outputs, but if you don't even know what those inputs should be, how are you going to come up with a great output Right? So, for us, one of our favorite things of doing right now is pulling in, and this is something that was such a manual thing in the past.
Speaker 3:It was like it was like scraping reviews and then, and then like basically having our data analysts like manually figure out what, what are the patterns in these reviews. Now that's done in minutes with AI, right, like we're able to really feed the AI some really strong data across Reddit, across Amazon reviews, across your competitors reviews, and then build super strong avatars and basically have your own trained AI that can help you, help act as like your own marketing consultant with your agency to help you cross check things you know. So it just makes you smarter.
Speaker 2:I think that that you hit on a key point pulling in all the data right, because so siloed. Point in all the data, getting that analysis and then putting those outputs. And you know I've had conversations with with clients, prospects, whatever about how powerful this is and you know what I get a lot. We know who our clients are. We know and clients, prospects, whatever about how powerful this is, and you know what I get a lot. We know who our clients are.
Speaker 3:We know.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 2:I'm like and I was like, let's, let's do some analysis. I bet we can find some things and some uh associations that that, like, no one would ever dream of. Right Like you, you, uh, mckenzie and all the big guys are are would ever dream of. Right Like you. You, uh, mckenzie, and all the the big guys are are worried. I think there's an existential crisis, because this can now be done, um, at scale, at a fraction of the cost, and you don't have to pay for all these data scientists and all this labeling and you can just throw all the data in you know, you can.
Speaker 2:You can do prompt engineering. What you're talking about, the engineering, prompt engineering, figure out exactly. You know what are the right questions in the workflow to ask. You can ideate, you can then build it into workflows and like what it's spitting out is is pretty incredible and to your point. Yeah, the the input's got to be right to get the right outputs and, and I think early on that's like kind of where the trajectory on the curve is.
Speaker 2:And that's what that's like kind of where the trajectory on the curve is, and that's what I did. I was like, okay, I'm using this a lot, like I need to get serious about it. I started taking a ton of different prompt engineering classes, which gave me a lot of insights, and then that becomes the foundational layer. And then, okay, like, how do we unify all the data with the MPC servers? And so I think there's an evolution here and it's so powerful. And I think that the thing that's lagging the most is education, and maybe with the clients, and like some clients that knew everything that there was to know about digital marketing, everything shifted quite a bit and and.
Speaker 2:I and I find myself having to um, slow down and kind of like re-explain stuff and and also have to show things and say, hey, look at this, like look, look at this output, Cause I I have one big like publicly traded client. Their stance, kind of going back to what you were saying, was no, no AI, and and they were using filters on content. So we were creating content and they were using filters and and they were like, oh, this was a 90% human written, is 10% AI pushed it back and I was like, okay, like it was trained on humans, I know a human wrote this like like this, this is slowing down the deliverables, like you were saying Right, and we're you know?
Speaker 3:and uh, and at the end of the day it's probably pointier copy that's targeting the exact avatar, because it was basically pulled in in a more scientific method than a human would be doing anyways.
Speaker 2:So those are, these are the kind of debates, right, that like it's hard to have with clients to say, okay, I, I understand your viewpoint, but like, let me show you, like, give me a little time to show you a little bit different perspective, right. And uh and so so we're in a new world. We're definitely in a new world.
Speaker 3:I think, on the Amazon side. The beautiful thing about the conversion piece, though, is that, for us, what I always let clients know like my opinion is my opinion. You know like I'm just one data point. Let's not lean on my opinion or your opinion. Let's actually just let the data decide. And now we have manager experiments, a split testing tool inside of Amazon. We have these third party tools like PickFu, like IntelliV, like ProductPinion. They're using real human data to you know, run these split tests. Or there's now, like AI-built avatar split testing, right when we can pull in completely AI-generated, you know avatars to split test in minutes.
Speaker 2:Okay, so, oh, so you're is there. See, you're so advanced in in in this area. Like are these avatars? Can you run fake tests, like with not real data, and then get get like an output right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it almost matches our human split testing.
Speaker 2:What would it, what it would be, what it would be right. So go through. You just listed off a bunch of different tools. Could you kind of give us the one-on-one breakdown of some of these different tools on the split testing side of what they do?
Speaker 3:So manage your experiments is, I would still say, fairly newer within the last couple of years, but it's something that's continually getting better and better. It's a free tool and it's inside of your seller central account on Amazon. Most brands don't use it. I recommend you should be always running a test on there, no matter what. There's no reason to not be. It's a 10 minute activity once a month. Let it run for the full month and see if you can get incremental gains throughout the year, like you should, absolutely. Whoever's managing your Amazon should be doing that no matter what, and at the end of every month they should be letting you know what happened with those tests period. That's the first thing. Second thing before we even upload anything to Amazon, we use third party tools. The three top ones out there right now are PickFu, intelliv and Product Pinion, and they're all a little bit different and they all have their strengths, and so it's really just finding which one works best for you and which one you want to use.
Speaker 3:What for? We use one for actually three different things. We use each one for a different thing. In our business, for instance, we use PicFu for main image split testing, so our process with main images is very specific. We have another AI tool that we've basically trained on all of our top performing main images, like, let's say, 20 different image styles that are like front loaded with all of this beautiful aesthetic to and high intent keywords to get people to click on our images versus the competitors in the in the search page results. And so we, basically we are at the point where we can drop a product image into our tool. It generates 20 images in two minutes and then from there we have a bunch of different ideation that we can then decide. Let's pick three or four and let's polish these up, let's get them straight into PickFu, let's test it and then let's push it straight to manage your experiments, to validate on Amazon, like that's the process, right. So that's one.
Speaker 3:Product opinion is really great. What I love it for is actually video polls. So, again, if we don't want to rely on you as a data point or me as a data point, drop a link to your listing into product opinion and ask 50 shoppers or five to go and look at your, go and look at your product page and tell you what could be better. And I promise you, even if you just did it with five. You would be shocked at the amount of little things that people say when they are verbally like letting loose on your, on your. You know they they are not holding back, you know. And so that's a really great way to get out of your own head and get out of your silo, thinking that your product is the best, your product pages is working like.
Speaker 3:Go and just let people tell you what they think and you'll just be shocked Like, wow, I did not even think of that, I did not even think that people could be thinking about this, about my packaging. You know like you'll be shocked. So highly recommend that as a best practice. Um, just to kind of take yourself out of a silo.
Speaker 3:And then IntelliV is actually really great at what's called um product image stack polls and this is basically the carousel that lives in the top um of your product page. When you first go into an amazon listing, you see all of these images that you can scroll through. Imagine if you could take those images that you have right now and maybe two more sets that you designed, and you could test them all across each other to see which ones get up votes, which ones get down votes, which order they should be in, and basically it'll tell you all of that so that you can improve the images and decide which order you're going to upload them in, so that you can improve your conversion on Amazon, and so that's what we recommend using for that piece.
Speaker 2:And then, and you said, the avatars for, like, synthetic data. Um, it'll, it'll, it'll start to. I didn't know that that tool is available.
Speaker 3:That's cool yeah, so that's a tool, um, it's I'm not sharing it yet, um, but we're working with a team that is working on that tool and, uh, we will be sharing it at some point because it's really fascinating. We're actually pulling in, let's say, reddit reviews, amazon reviews, competitors reviews, um, as much data as we can scrape about our brand as a client, about their competitors, and imagine, like, going out and scraping all of this Intel everywhere, bringing it in and building these really strong avatars and then building, like AI, audiences that are based around those avatars. So like.
Speaker 3:I have an avatar that is just like a mom who is also a pet owner, or you know what I mean. You know you end up knowing who your top three avatars are and you could split test into those three as you're developing your content. You might have a question as you're figuring out your messaging, and you could say which one of these messagings is going to better target my, my ICP, you know, or my avatar, or what else do you recommend to you know as far as messaging, and just let it give you ideas back. So that's going to be a really, really amazing tool, but the idea there is that it's going to do much more than that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, danielle, I have a question about. So. Typically, when I frame it up, like for clients, it's like okay, what is the ICP Right, and let's, let's really drill down on that. And I think you answered that really great. The next piece that I typically layer on is the customer journey, right, and what like. There's all kinds of like dark social and like all right. There's all these other things like what is the funnel look like or what is the customer journey look like, cause, like, I just finished this LinkedIn strategy training and there was some great data that it shared with me in that and I do a lot of B2B stuff that I didn't know and 10 pieces of content is, on average, what someone wants to see before they convert. Someone wants to see before they convert, and so if that's what B2B is on, like, let's say LinkedIn to a website to account-based selling.
Speaker 2:What does that look like on the e-commerce side? What was the customer journey? What are the pieces of content? How do you map that or what are you looking at? I'm just curious how that translates.
Speaker 3:I think for the brands that we work with, they're the way that they're focusing on their traffic strategies. Is is kind of all over the place at the moment, right, because of AI and because the way that Google search is changing and Amazon's changing and everything's in flux, right, and TikTok shop and all of that like that's been a huge right, and so we see brands that are trying everything and you know everything at the moment, and we see brands that are just like completely doubling down on TikTok, like seeing tremendous growth.
Speaker 3:For me, when I'm trying to work with brands and trying to explain to them the funnel on Amazon, I try to keep it just really simple, because there's always 150 things that people are throwing at you that you need to be doing and really it just comes down to three things on Amazon, and even today, this has not changed Like this has not. I know everybody's talking about Rufus, which is Amazon's AI search that's going to help you shop, and it is helping you shop and that's changing how search results are showing up, which is great. And there's things that are in movement and changing and we need to keep a pulse on, for sure, but the foundation of what we do today has not changed from what we did five years ago and we're still seeing the same results in just staying focused on the conversion piece, which is a standard, traditional funnel, where we're thinking about SEO for awareness, like how do we get found in the search results, making sure that our back end of our listing, the front end of our listing. And now, most importantly, the biggest change is our visuals. Making sure that our SEO is in alignment with those visuals so that the AI can read it. That's the biggest change that's happened there.
Speaker 3:The second piece is making sure that your main image is optimized so that people are clicking on yours instead of your competitors. So you're getting found through the SEO, you're getting clicks through the main image and, once they're inside your listing, making sure that every single image within there is dialed in in like a show and tell manner so that you are pushing for conversion. As they're scrolling through every single image, right, and they may not look at all the product images, they may not look at your A plus, but making sure that every single image is really thought through and split tested to make sure that you're converting. Well, like that's it. That's it One, two, three. You know.
Speaker 2:Well, I would love to unpack that a little bit more Each section, maybe share just some insights or learnings or best practices or pitfalls that we've seen historically. If we just think about each section. I would love to have you go deep and just spend a few moments sharing what you think would be valuable for the audience in each of those categories, because I think that a lot of people are just overwhelmed, right, and AI is now asking so much more, and I like how you said look, if you're trying to build a store, there's three things. Right, these are the three areas you need to focus on. Okay, what are the things in each area that I need to focus on? I'm sure people are getting their pads out and they're taking notes, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So for the SEO piece, taking notes, you know, yeah, so for the SEO piece, I will tell you and this is backed up by our data the lowest hanging fruit is title testing. So obviously you need to have a full, rounded out SEO copy on your bullets, on your description. Your description is not going to show up on the front end, by the way, once you upload your A-plus content, but it still needs to be there on the backend. You need to be thinking through what that SEO strategy is. We use a tool called Data Dive, which I am a huge fan of. I love it. If you use any of these tools, by the way, my code if you want a discount is mindfulVIP, so go ahead and give any of these a shot with that code. But Data Dive I love because we used to do a lot of things manually in our agency. One of them was what we would call like what they call battle of the titles. For us it was our title calculator. It was a spreadsheet where we would go in and do all the research to pull keywords from, let's say, the search query reports in your business reports in Amazon. We would pull your master keyword list. We'd pull any keywords that you're ranking for right now, that you're indexed for, and any that your competitors are indexed for, and then we would kind of cross-reference those against what's converting well on your advertising PPC. So we kind of build this master spreadsheet of keywords, right, and then we would try to understand what is the reach of all of these keywords and how do we align, how we're putting our copy into our listing in such a way that it's increasing the reach, the potential reach for this customer. One of the best ways you can do that is in your title, and so your title can actually improve your sales. I want to say it's like up to 550%. We have a, if you go to mindful goodsco, we have a metrics tab that shows you every quarter what we're releasing for our split tests, and so I will tell you right now for the SEO copy oh, I was way off you can increase your sales, your orders, by 990% by doing title testing. So highly recommend doing this.
Speaker 3:This is the lowest hanging fruit that you could possibly do in terms of activities. It doesn't require a graphic designer. It requires, yes, you sitting down and understanding the keywords that you're using. But we just worked with an eight figure brand and they have been selling for more than 10 years on Amazon, and they have been selling for more than 10 years on Amazon and they saw over 600% increase in sales. And this was one of the activities that they were shocked by. We record videos and we show them what we did, so they're along for the ride as we're making these adjustments, and they were just like wow, we had no idea how far short we were falling on our SEO, on our SEO process, you know. And so with data dive, it brings you through a series of steps where you're really dialing that in, and one of them is what they call battle of the title. So lowest hanging fruit. Highly recommend doing that.
Speaker 3:The second piece, if we want to dive into that, is the main images, which I explained earlier. Our process has changed quite a bit in the last couple months and now we have an AI tool that's trained on our best performing images. That is really about thinking through the all of the crazy ideas that you have on how your product could look in that first image on white and how you can capture eyeballs quicker, better, faster, than anybody else around you on that page. So if you go, look for your product and you see 50 products on the search page, or at least the top 20, go and look at what they're doing. And then go look in other categories and see what they're doing, and this is the point at which you want to ideate there is no bad ideas. You want a million ideas and then you're going to kind of just create them all with AI and just kind of like look at them and be like, okay, which ones of these do we realistically think are good options for our main image? Grab a few of the top ones, polish them up, throw them into a split test and with that you can improve your sales by 550% with just that one piece right. So again, low hanging fruit on these very simple tests. And that final piece, the A plus content. Once you're inside the listing, what we recommend, there is a landing page style format. So now Amazon has what's called premium A plus content.
Speaker 3:Any brand who's brand registered selling on seller central can get this unlocked on their account. It's something that vendor central brands are paying. We have clients that are paying almost a million dollars for access to this and it's completely free for brands that are on Seller Central and that are brand registered and anyone can get access to this. Okay, so the only requirements, just so that everybody knows, because I feel like I'm screaming from the rooftops about this and like 50% of brands that come to us still have not unlocked this. But it is free to you and you should unlock it and get it while you can. It is the only thing you have to do to qualify to get it is a brand story. You have to upload a brand story, which, by the way, you don't have to have anything fancy.
Speaker 3:Put a placeholder image, put a lifestyle image and submit it. So the Amazon approves it, and then it's going to ask you which ASINs you want to put this on or which SKUs you want to apply this. To Apply it to every single SKU in your catalog. Submit it, leave it there. The only other thing you have to do is you have to have submitted I think it's 10 submissions of A plus content.
Speaker 3:This part's changing. It might be five now. It used to be like 20. And so, really, what you want to do here, it doesn't mean you need to have 20 SKUs. It doesn't mean you need to have 10 SKUs. It doesn't even mean you need to have five SKUs. You could have one product and all you have to do is submit A plus content, which again, doesn't need to be what we do. It doesn't need to be a landing page style A plus content. Just put up a banner, a lifestyle image and submit it on one of your ASINs and then let Amazon approve it. Once they approve it, you're going to duplicate and submit. Do that 10 times.
Speaker 3:And then within a week, this new feature in your account is going to be unlocked for you, called premium A plus content. So that lives below the fold when scrollers are shopping. It's the thumb stopper right above the review. So it's all of those really pretty big banners that act like a landing page. That can be a huge conversion piece, and so for us, we think through that exactly as you would think through your landing page on your website, and that's the piece that can get you up to 1,008% increase in sales. Wow.
Speaker 2:That's a huge upgrade for everyone that's listening. Could you, Daniela, describe or define what is A-plus content from Amazon's perspective and how would you look at that? Let's dig into that a little bit more.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so A-plus content. So there's two pieces inside your product page. Once they click to go inside your listing, the product image carousel is what you see at the top. So you have your hero image and your other product images and a video. Then you scroll down because you want to go see the reviews and there's these other banners that live right below the fold and sometimes and this is what brands used to do in the past brands would just upload just random stock images there and a bunch of text because you could index really well in the past with that section.
Speaker 3:Amazon has come out in in in the last few years saying like that's not the intent. The intent of that area is to really showcase your brand. So it could be cross-selling, could be educating them on how you've been you know a legacy business around for 45 years. It could. There's so many positioning things you can do there. But the main point is that they're giving you real estate on your product page to really convert and to to bring the shopper through something, because there's so many distractions on that product page. Like, if you go look at a product page today, there's advertisements all over the page, so you have to treat it differently than you would treat your Shopify site. You know like you really have to get the attention, and that is the spot to do it. It's the one page, it's the one section that Amazon is giving you to put full scale video. You can have carousels, you can have hotspots, and so it really does function very similar to a landing page that sits within your product page in the middle of all that distracting advertising.
Speaker 2:So you want to make the most of it that we haven't really covered, that you wanted to make sure to share about Amazon specifically.
Speaker 2:I think that you've given people a lot to think about a lot of different tools. There's really no reason why you shouldn't be doing split testing now with large language models. It's so easy to do. There's tools coming out all the time. This is the magic sauce that you've wanted for a long time and you should start using it. And when now you're talking about the synthetic data on the, the, the target personas, that's going to be incredible, because before you even spend a dollar, it was kind of that's kind of like trading stocks with, with the play accounts, right, like it's like this is so so good.
Speaker 2:You don't have to spend the money to get the data.
Speaker 3:And there's a tool out there right now that had that about a year ago and they were paying. They were there, they positioned themselves as an enterprise tool and I know brands right now they're still using it and that tool. I mean we're talking about like hundreds of thousands of dollars and you're going to be able to get that same level soon. Like I mean, you can build it on your own right now as your own custom GPT. You could do something really similar, but there's going to be softwares that are going to offer this that are just going to make it so simple for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're going to. They're putting wrappers around everything that.
Speaker 2:That's actually what a lot of these tools were like um uh was, was uh just a low grade AI or LLM wrapped around, and that was the thing to do. I think that everything's kind of out of the box now, Even traffic's like left the website. You were talking about Shopify and I just wanted to kind of hear your perspective, because I talked to the brands now and then that have an e-commerce component and like I actually have some equity in a few, and I was like we need to be on Amazon. No, they take too big a cut, Like. I've heard different stories like and I'm like, okay, you could mark it up and then they'll knock it back down, but Amazon's like the biggest search engine for this. So I've had like a lot of these debates so with other properties that are out there, how do you view them?
Speaker 3:How do you view the ecosystem? That's such a good question. Okay, let me give you my take on it. So I think you have to do both, and here's why. So my personal use case I live in Peru. I'm in Peru right now, but I was in New York a few days ago with the team at Amazon. And when I go to United States at Amazon and when I when I go to United States, I do my haul right. So my behavior is my behavior is I already?
Speaker 3:had my shopping cart, yeah, pre loaded, right. So I'm about to board my flight and I'm like everything that's prime, boom, get to the hotel. So it's waiting for me, right. When I get there. If you are not prime and you're on Amazon, you're not making the cut. For instance, I needed shoes because I'm going to a wedding in Italy and I was like, okay, I need these specific shoes, but I need them to either be at my hotel or at my mom's house in California so that they make it to Italy. What am I going to do, right? So I'm trying to think through. So I go to the Sam Edelman website. Am I going to do Right? So I'm trying to think through. So I go to the Sam Edelman website. They don't have any sort of guarantee that they're going to be at my hotel by a certain date, right? So that's a lost sale.
Speaker 3:I wanted a specific toothpaste. I gave this example the other day on another podcast. I wanted a specific toothpaste and this might be TMI, but I really wanted a. I use a tea tree oil toothpaste. It's by very specific brand.
Speaker 3:I know they sell on Amazon. They didn't have prime to set, set up to deliver to New York in time before I left and I was only there for two days. So they lost the sale right Just by not having their product in stock in Amazon's FBA warehouse. Am I going to go to their website to buy my toothpaste? No, I'm not, because I don't know for sure that their website will get it to me on time, right, and so it's like that is the Amazon shopper. I am the epitome of the Amazon. This all about convenience, right, like I absolutely wait for the last minute. I put all my orders in. They get to the hotel and if you don't have prime and you're not on Amazon and you're not making the cut, you lost the sale Right.
Speaker 3:So that is a very specific buyer and there's a lot of us right Now. If I lived in California, still I may have a little bit more time and I might actually take more time to go to people's website. But if I'm a busy mom and I got to, I got to take my kids to school and I got to walk the dog and I got to do all this other stuff at home I don't have time to be sitting around on websites and figuring out like when I'm going to get the thing that I want. Like I just need to know, like that's what I need. It answers all my questions really quickly. I know I'm going to get it cause it's prime and done, done, just like clear that mental load, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I think that the ecosystem has has changed the game, because you don't have to set up multiple passwords, you don't have to log in, you're not putting your information all in one place, it's all in the ecosystem.
Speaker 2:I mean Amazon. It's been a process to move to like an AI first company, but I mean it's changed the game and it's the power of the network and as it grows, and to your point, I mean I sometimes of the network and as it grows, and to to your point, I mean I sometimes I live in Houston and so, um, you know, if I go somewhere else, um, it's not like it's delivered within a couple hours, but like I order stuff and it's here. It's scary quick, right, it's scary quick Cause the, the warehouse around the corner or whatever, and I mean there's Amazon deliveries, you know, on our street every, every day, you know, maybe multiple times a day, and, um it, it has changed what our expectation is. A lot of times, if I order something on a different website, man, I'll forget that I even ordered it and it comes in the mail. I'm like what's this? You know?
Speaker 3:Um, and now the other thing, though, to consider is, like, from the brand's perspective, I get it. Why you, your margins are better on your own website, right Like, I get that. So there is a way to merchandise things differently on different platforms, right Like? Maybe you wouldn't sell the exact same bundle or size that you would on Amazon, and you don't want Amazon doing price checks against any of your other retailers or your own website because they want to have the best price too, right? So there is a way to kind of package things up and merchandise in such a way that the Amazon experience is its own thing, separate from your website, and that's something to be considered as well.
Speaker 2:Like what I found brands doing is they offer the same price as Amazon and then they offer coupons and stuff like that on their own website to bring down the price. There's a lot of that that have to, I guess, be played and from.
Speaker 3:Shopify, you need, like you need to push up that average car value too, you know, whereas, like on Amazon, if you're, let's say, like a velocity product, like a CPG product, you could focus more on like subscriptions and getting subscribed and save buyers, you know, and pushing that up. So it's like probably different KPIs depending on the channel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you just got to model it and figure out what. What makes the most sense, but to, not to, not to, to not open up Amazon is. I mean, how much Danielle is Amazon of the like overall market, Like how, how big of a percentage is it? I don't know Is.
Speaker 3:Amazon of the overall market. How big of a percentage?
Speaker 2:is it I don't know, of online sales, yeah, or is there any metrics you have of how big of a piece of pie that is that people want to walk away from it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't want to quote it, but I think it's over 50% of online sales, that's incredible. I don't want to misquote that. But there is really strong figures out there, that I mean Amazon is the biggest of online sales.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, awesome, well, this has been great. So if we had to synthesize everything that we were talking about and maybe surface one thing of like what is the one unknown secret of internet marketing that you want people to walk away with, what would that be?
Speaker 3:Oh, don't put all your eggs in the advertising basket. Really focus on conversion so you can get more out of each dollar.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that. All right, danielle, how do people get in contact with you? Follow you? I know you speak. Where are you active on social platforms so people can find out more about your stuff?
Speaker 3:I'm a little bit of a big deal on LinkedIn, so you can find me there, but also at mindfulgoodsco if you want to chat with us. We have a fun thing called a mini audit, so if you want me or one of my creative directors to look at your listing, we record a video and give you all of our tips. You can either hand it off to your team or hire us to do the work, but I recommend checking that out.
Speaker 2:All right, Well, awesome. Well, guys, if you thought Danielle was a good guest and you would like more guests like Danielle, please hit the subscribe button. Please follow us, share like us. We are Internet Marketing Secrets now on YouTube, so we're going to get that up and going this quarter and just appreciate all your support. My name is Matt Bertram. This is the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing Until the next time. Bye-bye for now.
