When PR Meets SEO With Jackie Zukerman Delory

We dig into how podcasting, digital PR, and SEO now reinforce each other, especially as AI search tools pull answers from trusted third-party sources. We also share practical ways to turn press and interviews into long-term visibility while staying grounded when attention brings criticism. 

• why early podcasting works as a relationship builder and business flywheel 
• how press placements create credibility and authoritative backlinks 
• what “AI visibility” means for brands in ChatGPT style search 
• ways to repurpose podcast interviews into clips, blogs, email, YouTube, and niche groups 
• how to respond to bad reviews and shift the narrative without spiraling 
• why PR agencies and SEO agencies should collaborate for durable results 
• how to build a visibility roadmap through messaging, visuals, and personal brand consistency 
• common media pitching mistakes, especially generic AI written outreach without research 
• how a print on demand magazine can still be a smart networking channel 

Guest Contact Information: 

Website: nextonscene.com

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/jaclyn-zukerman-delory

Instagram: instagram.com/jackiezuk

More from EWR and Matthew:

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With over 5 million downloads, The Best SEO Podcast has been the go-to show for digital marketers, business owners, and entrepreneurs wanting real-world strategies to grow online. 

Now, host Matthew Bertram — creator of the LLM Visibility Stack™, and Lead Strategist at EWR Digital — takes the conversation beyond traditional SEO into the AI era of discoverability. 

Each week, Matthew dives into the tactics, frameworks, and insights that matter most in a world where search engines, large language models, and answer engines are reshaping how people find, trust, and choose businesses. From SEO and AI-driven marketing to executive-level growth strategy, you’ll hear expert interviews, deep-dive discussions, and actionable strategies to help you stay ahead of the curve. 

Find more episodes here: 

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LinkedIn: @mattbertramlive

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_02 0:00

This is the unknown secrets of internet marketing. Your insider guide to the strategies top marketers use to crush the competition. Ready to unlock your business full potential? Let's get started.

SPEAKER_03 0:17

Welcome back to the Best SBO podcast, The Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing. And I've got graphic that we've got to remove from there. There we go. All righty. I'm your guest host, Jeff Campbell, as you can tell by my uh graphic overlay skills. Uh, second time hosting the podcast. Matt is off doing business development right now, and he is cooking up some really interesting things for future episodes. So you'll want to join us for those. But uh today's guest is Jaclyn Zuckerman Delori, founder and CEO of Next on Scene Media, a Boston-based PR and media company, helping entrepreneurs and brands get seen, heard, and remembered. Jacqueline launched Next on Scene Podcast back in 2014, added a magazine in 2015, and has since built the brand into a full service agency, offering what she calls 360-degree visibility, strategy, storytelling, amplification under all under one roof. She's interviewed celebrities and reality stars and helped hundreds of business owners land press placements in outlets like USA Today, Fox, and NBC, and created her signature blueprints. Um, sorry, created her signature blueprints by Jaclyn PR Roadmap System. Jacqueline, welcome to the show. Great to have you with us.

SPEAKER_04 1:32

Jeff, that was such a nice introduction. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

Oh, you're most welcome. It's great, great to have you with us today. So you launched Next on Scene Podcast back in 2014 before podcasting was really uh a thing, or not as broad as it is right now, that's for sure. Uh what made you bet on that type of media as part of your business model early in the game?

SPEAKER_04 1:54

Yeah, it's a great question. I I really fell into it. Like I didn't really know what it was because it radio was still really radio still exists as you know, but it was still really big like 11, 12 years ago, you know. Um, I feel like it was something new and I wanted to explore something new and exciting. And so that's kind of why I kind of took the jump and went for it. And I thought it would allow people to listen on demand, and that's really what sold me on it because people could listen anytime. So that's why I leaned into it. I went for it.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

Right. And were you a listener to a lot of shows at the time? Yeah, digging in and exploring stuff. You just heard about it and you thought this is a thing we should try. And that's how have you liked it as a tool? So that's a long time to stay with it.

SPEAKER_04 2:37

Yeah, I love it as a networking tool. I feel like I've gotten to I don't know how you feel about this. I'm assuming you know, you and Matt probably feel the same, but you really get to know people really intimately and get thought about beyond like because you get intimate time with people, and I think it's a great way to like do introductions and be thought about afterwards with no expectation during it.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Yeah, I absolutely well. My my kind of backstory actually is I was a listener of this podcast, you know, going back about 12 years because I was a pretty early adopter when it came to podcasting before it even before it was even called podcasting. I was, you know, just listening and watching that space and found it really interesting. But I found this company through their podcast. I hired them about eight years ago, so I was a client for like four or five years, and then I got to know the team. They just seemed like they were having a good time, and the podcast was part of that, and now here I am hosting it. So that is amazing. If you if you don't think it works for business, like it works, and yeah, uh, you know, I'm I'm living proof of that. So um great story.

SPEAKER_04 3:37

That's a great story. Love that story.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

Yeah, it's it's the long game, though, definitely, right? Because that was like a 12-year journey. Um, but it builds business, but it's it's not like flipping a switch, you know, you're building the network, like you said, having great conversations and uh and learning, you know, and making meeting great people along the way. So excellent.

Why Podcasting Was Worth The Bet

SPEAKER_03 3:57

Um, let's talk about uh digital PR and SEO. Those worlds have kind of meshed together a lot, and we're finding that even more and more. Like a press placement in USA Today isn't just credibility anymore, it's a backlink. It's you know, uh a backlink from a very authoritative domain on the internet. So, how intentionally do you factor in SEO into the press and media placements that you're going after for your clients? Yeah, well, I'm consideration.

SPEAKER_04 4:27

Yeah, I tell every client now that you need to optimize your press placements. Like you need to put on your website, you need to put on your email signatures, like anywhere you can link it, do you know what I mean? Like black backlink, the better. Um, so I always say, like, definitely hire an SEO company with the press placements. But I've also seen now with AI, like when you're searching for companies, when you're pressed, when you're in place online, like a credible source, it also is now picking up, like, oh, so and you know, Jeff was cited in USA Today or Business Insider. Like those are they're now pulling those up as like go-to people in the industry. So it's helping build your credibility even within AI and chat and all those things.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

So yeah, absolutely. Though, you know, AI search uh channels like GPT or Perplexity and even Google's AI overviews pull heavily from earned media and trusted publications like those. Are clients coming to you asking how do I show up when someone is asking about AI in my, you know, asking AI for information in my industry? Like, are they looking for that as a you know, the getting AI visibility? Is that a consideration for your clients?

SPEAKER_04 5:36

So for me, so I think clients come to me first to get more eyes on them in terms of like public speaking, like a thought leadership, I would say, is what they come to me for. And then I tell them once the placements are in place, like you should hire an SEO company to optimize it to be more searchable, you know, because the the TV stations, the magazine outlets, they will put you on their websites and I'll tell you strategically how to market it in your social media, but I'm not the tech wiz beyond that place. So I'm like, you need to even maximize the opportunities beyond that. And that's how companies like you can really help.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

So yeah, yeah, absolutely. And we love to help uh get involved with that. And we we found you know the need to have discussions and conversations with people more in the traditional PR space as well, to bring in their skill set to solve some of the client problems that uh clients

PR Placements As SEO Signals

SPEAKER_03 6:30

bring to us as well. So here's a thesis I want to get your take on. PR is becoming an effective SEO strategy because AI models trusts you know the third-party coverage more than anything a brand says about itself. Do you agree with that statement, or would you have a different take on it?

SPEAKER_04 6:47

Can you repeat it again?

SPEAKER_03 6:49

Yeah, so it's like the the concept that um that PR is like the kind of the best SEO move that you can do uh because of how much AI loves that third party statement. It's like a lot of traditional SEO is like what we say about us on our website and our blog and things that we're doing for ourselves to get ranking, as opposed to when you go to those third party, you know, getting placed on you know Forbes or USA Today, that's a like a trusted third party, and that's more, you know, the the idea is that that's more critical to the AI search because of its third party nature, as opposed to us saying, hey, we're here and we're awesome. You know, everybody's gonna say good things about themselves, right? But third party more trust.

SPEAKER_04 7:33

No, I I think it's I think it's really so just correct me if I'm answering correctly because it sounds so technical, so I'm just being honest with that too. So I think it's really valuable to have PR because automatically it gives you great SEO in AI. It does, it gives you great SEO in AI, it gives you great SEO on Google, but sometimes you even need well, you 100% need people to go in and make it so it attracts even more people outside of their audiences. And that's where I feel like you guys come in. Does that kind of answer that question?

SPEAKER_03 8:03

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Like the way the way we would look at it is that there's foundational pieces that you want to have your information architecture correct, you know, and your your kind of uh uh information entities correct. Not, you know, it used to be mostly just about your own website and your backlinks coming to your site, but now it's like your information across a variety of channels, including your website and primarily your website, but also other places where people might be talking about things like you know, the the uh the LLMs are looking for original, authentic, accurate, up-to-date information. So they're going to places like Reddit, you know, scraping Reddit for because it's fresh conversation, it's fresh authentic conversation, generally speaking. Although, as people try and game Reddit more, maybe the authenticity factor is gonna get pushed down a bit because everybody's always trying to, you know, game the system to get that exposure. But uh we we find it it's yeah, you know, third-party articles, backlinks, and all that work really well when your core information on your website is structured correctly and your data is marked up correctly.

SPEAKER_04 9:12

But I would even just to follow up with that thought though, Jeff, like I think for your name imprint, like for for being on a credible company website, like does incredible opportunities for your personal brand, you know, like for SEO purposes. So, like, yeah, I just wanted to share that too. I think that that's valuable as well.

SPEAKER_03 9:31

So yeah, it it does credibility, but then when you go down to kind of the machine level, like Matt even had an issue with um because there are there are you know it's a pretty common name. There are multiple Matt Bertrams out there, and there are even some who are in a space that's you know not directly, you know, kind of competing with what he does, but but very adjacent, and and it would be easy for you know, the machines need a lot of they need specific literal information to interpret, right? And so, you know, it's a question of like, are we going with Matt Bertram or Matthew Bertram? And like, how do we how do we differentiate him from those other ones who are some you know kind of public facing figures out there as well? And you know, yeah, you have to have a really uncommon name to be the only person with your name, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:19

Really, really good point, you know.

SPEAKER_03 10:21

So that's uh you know, that's where that structural stuff can come in to like help just really spell it out for the machines. Like, who are we talking about when we talk about this name? Uh so that and then that goes in with the you know the third-party exposure and the PR. It's like, but are the machines understanding the entity correctly? Of like, is it this Map Virgin versus that Map Virgin type of thing? So, anyways, yeah, nerdy in the reads there, as I tend to do, but um uh so when a client, so let's talk about podcasting in terms of like a tool for getting

How AI Pulls Credible Sources

SPEAKER_03 10:56

that exposure. When a client gets featured uh in a podcast

Repurposing Podcasts Into Content Nuggets

SPEAKER_03 11:00

or you interview them in a podcast, what's your what do you do with that content afterwards to kind of get the most value out of it? Because that's a starting point, right?

SPEAKER_04 11:09

Great question, because my company is filled with a lot of content, like that's just I'm sure you guys in your own way to experience that. So, what we do is we promote, we break them up because obviously podcasts are long. So, how do you splice up the content, create them into content nuggets, and repurpose them over time? So we take episodes, we splice them, we repurpose them in the social media feeds, we repurpose them um in like uh email blasts. Like we've kind of done a little bit of testing. And then what I've done in the past, I don't do as much now, is I really utilized Facebook groups and I used to reshare my content there too, because there are a lot of niche people that are looking for specific things to listen to. Um, so those are things I had done in the past, blogs. I definitely have had blogs where people can click and write, read and listen to them there on my website, and then you optimizing YouTube. YouTube is so huge for you know visual and audio avenues.

SPEAKER_03 12:06

So yeah, absolutely. And and the way we, you know, from our SEO perspective, we refer to it as the second biggest search engine in the world, right out there.

SPEAKER_04 12:14

Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Which it is, yeah. But that's our that's a really interesting take about you know, like specific Facebook groups because you've got a you know, a self-selected audience that's interested in a particular topic there, so that's a really great idea.

SPEAKER_04 12:30

And even like just to follow up on that thought, like LinkedIn has groups too that's great for that, too. You know, like I used to do that when my podcast was my sole thing, like that's what I where I put a lot of my time into because there, even though people don't necessarily click and like and comment on things, they're they're watching, you know what I'm saying? So I think that there's a lot of value to be had there.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

Yeah, like as opposed to just like kind of spraying it everywhere and saying, here's our information, you're you've already got like a uh a pre-selected, uh, you know, self-identified audience of people with a particular topical interest. So if you if you're a match for that, yeah, that that's that's uh brilliant for sure.

Handling Bad Reviews And Negative Press

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Um, let's talk about the flip side of visibility. So when a client comes to you with you know a negative article that's been published or so, you know, pile of bad reviews that's sitting on page one of Google, do you have a particular kind of approach or playbook for doing damage control for those who are such a great question?

SPEAKER_04 13:28

This happened to one of my clients not too long ago. Um, my first, this is maybe your expertise, but I'm speaking from a publicist standpoint. So I always say to first, you can't, I'm sure you guys know, like you can't remove a Google review if it's bad. Like it takes a long time to do that. So I'm always like, reach out to all your other clients you love, like, know, and trust, and have them start reviewing you so it pushes the crap out of that um, you know, the bad review down to the bottom. I always say, like, that's a great way to start doing that. Um, and then I've totally had clients in the past that have been on television, got so much attention, and kind of um decided that it wasn't fit for them anymore. They were very intimidated by that. And to just kind of talk about a two-folded area of what you're saying. I think that sometimes there's a lot of judgment that comes with growth and visibility. And so I feel like it's important to build confidence and I'm spiritual, work on your spirituality. And I think that really allows you to show up more confidently and translate more positive opportunities to yourself.

SPEAKER_03 14:32

Yeah, having that skill of being able to to kind of face a storm or even like what do people think about me if I put myself out there publicly is gonna be really intimidating for a lot of people. But um, yeah, on on the on the negative on the recovering from negative publicity, like with Google reviews. Um, we actually had somebody who gave us a negative review and got very personal about it and started like posting screenshots of emails. You said this and you said that, and it was crazy, and we just pointed it out to Google, and they're like, Yeah, that's not happening. Like, so they they removed it right away because this person was completely on some things, yeah. So it can be done, but yeah, it's not just a regular bad review, it's when people are like get get you know good crossing the line in terms of what they're they're sharing. But I've also seen it go the other way where um, you know, just reaching out to the disgruntled uh customer and saying, Hey, how can we fix this? And had we've seen situations where like a one star turned into a five-star review on Google because they had a legit problem with something that happened. It was a different company I was working for, but uh you know, we turned it around, and that's that's not always easy to do, but it can happen.

SPEAKER_04 15:42

So there's ways to Yeah, and I just want to bob on your on your two-folded question because you said something of like bad articles that come out or whatever, and I think that that's common, especially in like I don't know, celebrity PR, like you think about the cold play concert, like you think about things that have just happened that you just can't like it's such a short-term thing if you think about it in the big scheme of things, that it's almost like you need to not let it consume your own day-to-day content and focus on other positive things that you or your company can offer. You can't take away what happened, but you can switch the narrative. So, like they know that you're not hyper-focused on it. Does that make any sense? So I always say, Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Yeah, it's like we yeah, we you don't want to spend a lot of time spinning in that cycle of of engaging with the negativity. Uh, I think you know, take the high road, answer it once, and then we're moving on. Exactly. If if it even merits an answer. So let's let's go back to um the concept here with uh the PR and SEO kind of worlds

Why PR And SEO Work Better Together

SPEAKER_03 16:44

overlapping. Should PR agencies and SEO agencies uh find ways to collaborate more? And where do you see opportunities uh for working together?

SPEAKER_04 16:54

Yeah, I mean, I love I've I work with a few SEO companies over the years. So I know a lot of value of like I'm not good with back personally, I'm not good with back end website stuff, like any of the things to optimize the back end of how hyperlink things to make them maximize more audiences. So I always say, like, I can do the front end and I can get more eyes on you from the front end, but to really double down and grow, you need an SEO company to really optimize it long term. Because my social media, like my social media that I strategize with and the PR stuff, can come off short-lived if it's not remarketed. And people need to be educated. So, like clients that stay on with me for a long time, like we know how to repurpose the content and all those things. If you're with a PR company for a short-term period of time, even though those articles live on those TV news sites forever, if you're not remarketing it or it's not hyperlinked on your website, it's lost, lost money, lost time, all the things, right? So I'm always like an SEO company can help that front end be more regular, consistent. Does that make any sense?

SPEAKER_03 17:58

Yeah, absolutely. No, it it so some of this content stuff is playing the long game. And you know, some content is ephemeral and it's down the river, and just we're done with it. And the other of it will uh have you know kind of evergreen value, like depending on what the topic is being discussed. If it's current events, maybe it's not so relevant a year from now, but there are some things that we can talk about that will absolutely be relevant, and that there will be, you know, that link will come through three, four years later. And that's you know, it's like podcasting. Oh, we did a podcast. Did we get new customers next month? Well, no, but maybe you got one like two years from now, and you but you didn't even have the attribution to know. And and that, you know, that's one thing that we really like to do is is you know, can we find a way to get attribution and measurement even over the long haul, right? Of the investment that we made. But it's also to some extent just understanding that you know, in the world of search, uh, you know, the machine runs on content. And so having a steady flow, which podcasting is a great way to create that steady flow, is you know, it has value even if you can't prove the value. You should try to prove the value, but even if you can't, like we just trust that it's a good thing to be creating valuable content for people.

SPEAKER_04 19:12

I just see, but I don't know if you have like thoughts on this too, but even just the stamp of having like NBC on your website, like NBC Fox, like I think about all the placements I've done over the years. Like, you even if the article isn't relevant, it's about how you're marketing the placements that you got, right? Like, it's like how can you like subtly say, like, it could have been on something like you said, like a tournament that's not relevant anymore, but it's still a stamp on your brand that gives you the credibility to get more people know that you've been placed there, you know. So I think it's a two-folded um, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 19:48

You're making me think of things that I've engaged with in the past, like they had, you know, uh sort of audience outreach things where they they were looking for questions for interviews on CNN, you know, it was kind of cool. I sent in a question that and it was an author of a book that I had read, and they used my question and they asked him the question and they put my name. This question came in from Jeff Campbell. And you know, that was just kind of a cool experience, but it's like, hey, CNN used my question, so I've you know, in a very tiny way, my content's been featured on CNN, right? But they wanted to engage that way, so it's amazing though. It's a legit, yeah, it's cool, like that you can have those uh, you know, for that as an experience, so that was like you know, probably like 15 years ago when that happened. I was like, wow, that's so cool that that you know the world was getting to that place where we can, you know, because before you could not reach up to a big media channel like that and get anything on there at all, like it just so true out of reach, right? So yeah, the world has uh has shifted. Uh I'd like to

What Celebrity Interviews Taught Her

SPEAKER_03 20:49

okay. So you've interviewed uh celebrities and reality stars. What did promoting famous people teach you about promoting less famous people? Was there something from their world that kind of became a lesson about how they went about things?

SPEAKER_04 21:06

What an interesting question. Um did they teach me anything? So repeat the second part of the question.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

Yeah, so so so they're they're automatically, you know, if somebody's uh a public figure, they probably have a machine around them to help them with their their PR and their publicity and how they get the message out there or whatever. Did you like pick up any tips from them? As uh, you know, they were like, Oh, that's a good, I hadn't thought of doing that before, or did you pretty much have your game on?

SPEAKER_04 21:35

I think I just always so I think I just talk to them like normal people. I never treat anyone different. And I so I haven't really, I'm being honest with you, like I think that that's why I've gotten the interviews I've gotten because they're very impressed with like that. I'm not starstruck, that I'm just a genuine, like want to have a conversation with you. So I really see everybody as the same, no matter what the status is. I think people that are small businesses that are Come on, just don't have the exposure or have ever been on shows before. So they're definitely way more intimidated. You know, like I think the only thing I've experienced at the really high level is we have this limited time frame. This is the amount of time I have. You know, like it's very like, I'm like, don't worry, we'll be on time. Like it's all good. Like, and they're very impressed by that, you know. So I think that that's the only thing that I've seen that they're like just very regimented in terms of how much time they can give you, you know. So, but some aren't like that, some are.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

Sure, sure, Brady and use your time well, I guess, is the exact way from that one. Yeah, for sure. So blueprints

Building A Visibility Roadmap

SPEAKER_03 22:35

by Jason. Uh, what you know, tell me a little bit about what goes into your visibility roadmap or how you think about that when you're building that roadmap for somebody.

SPEAKER_04 22:44

Yeah. So I clients come to you when they want to get more publicity, be on TV, be in magazines. So I look at all of their marketing, like front-end marketing. So their website messaging, their visuals, their photo and video content, um, any partnerships they've done, have they built their personal brand, any like headshots they have. Like I look for anything that's outdated that doesn't depict their bigger goals. And we create a message and visuals to get them to the end goal as like the thought leader in their space, as the go-to person they want to be. Um, because for me, I truly feel that you can change careers any day, but you're always your personal brand. Like you can continue to evolve, but you're still Jeff. You know what I mean? Like, so people always know you as Jeff Campbell and people always know me as Jacqueline, but like I can have multiple careers in my life. So I think that that's what I love to hone in on of like keeping the consistency of your personal brand where your heart lives, you know.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

So yeah, love it, love that, you know, that kind of authenticity in the in the increasingly, you know, flooded with AI content world. I think there's a there's a real um, you know, the the the value of that personal brand and that you know backed by authenticity, not like just a facade, but you know, like hey, here's a real me, here's what you get. Uh, I think that's refreshing to a lot of people. They they really engage with that.

SPEAKER_04 24:09

For sure.

SPEAKER_03 24:10

Um, and so you're trying to bring that out for your clients, like help them to find what their voice is or their kind of how to get across like who they really are to their audience.

SPEAKER_04 24:20

So I and this is what I'm continuing to teach people like the most vulnerable things about your life. You don't have to share everything, but that's for people connect. And so that is something that AI can never take from you. So, like, I love AI, like I think it simplifies so many things, but the human connection it will never replace, you know, like emotions and that that's really what I teach people to get more confident sharing through video, through photos, through how they're communicating it to the world. Like, that's what I love to do. So that's that's how I do it. So I help directly create and produce all those sort of things.

SPEAKER_03 24:57

So yeah, amazing. You know, I I always say that you know, I'm trying to think about the like what what do humans have that AI doesn't have? Because AI is so impressive, it can do so much, it can do it really quickly. Uh, and the thing that AI doesn't have and will never really have is stories from the trenches, like it just hasn't had a human experience, right? It can probably be taught to make stuff up. God help us that that ever happens. We don't want that, but um, you know, stories from the trenches, like real human experience is what is, I think, interesting and engaging a lot of time to to

Pitching Media Without Sounding Like AI

SPEAKER_03 25:32

people. Um in terms of approaching uh, you know, when it when individuals are pitching themselves to media, do you see any kind of mistakes or or kind of errors in thinking that people make when they're when they're first trying to start that process?

SPEAKER_04 25:49

Great question. I love this question. So this is where people use too much AI, and this is why it doesn't translate. This is where like I think AI is great for a baseline. For a baseline, like template, like create a press release for me. Here's what I'm thinking, yada yada yada. If you don't know anything about what the reporter's reporting on, if you don't know anything personal about them, they're not gonna read your email, they're gonna put it in the trash. So, like, I think this is where the human connection comes in. Like, you need to do your research on who the reporters, editors, and journalists are, like spend time engaging in their content for a little while, like really spend time that you care that you're standing out to them. Because I think they get well, I know they get pitched thousands of emails a day. So, like if you're not standing out in the weeds authentically, like it's not being paid attention to.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

Yeah, there just reminds me, there's a guy uh I I'm based out of Canada. There's a guy up here who is a music journalist and he goes by the handle Nardwar the human serviette, which is serviette in Canada, is a napkin, basically. Like he's like the human napkin. Funny name, but his whole thing, and he is very well respected in the musical industry, especially with a lot of rap artists, because he will get the deepest, most, you know, the deepest level of research that you can possibly do. Like he'll find out who your best friend was in grade six and like ask you about it in the interview, and people are always their jaws just hitting the floor because he's always like gone back and found out, you know, talk to their mom or something like that, and found out like the most deepest research that nobody can imagine, and and built the whole thing on that. And as a result, this guy is like beloved in the music community because everybody just like this guy cares about it. And then he also goes and finds gifts. He's like, Here's the first original LP you guys issued in like 1989, and it's you know, he'll he'll give it to them as a gift, you know, it's like some obscure piece of like memorabilia that has that's amazing!

SPEAKER_04 27:49

That's really amazing.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

It's like a lot of work that goes into that.

SPEAKER_04 27:53

There's definitely a lot of work that goes into that.

SPEAKER_03 27:55

Yeah, but it's like the guy's built his whole career based on like deep research, caring more than anybody has ever cared about like an interview before, basically. And uh it's it's just you reminded me of that. It's it's kind of wild actually. Thanks for caring that.

SPEAKER_04 28:10

That's really but that's like a great example of how to stand out to people, and it absolutely worked, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 28:18

Yeah, yeah. And it's funny because he he has a very uh uh you know, he wears like kind of a funny hat and like plaid pants and stuff. He's got a whole shtick to it, and people used to make fun of him, like get out of here, you know, like dismiss him at the beginning. There's even some bands who like treated him really badly, but over time as people realize, wow, this guy is like a true fan of the genre and has the background and the research, they just came to love, you know, like Snoop Dogg and like different people like that just love the guy uh because because of how much he cares about the subject matter, anyways. Good on a tangent of old there, but I'll send you like worth it's really it's really worth a look if you haven't haven't seen his uh his content.

Why A Print Magazine Still Works

SPEAKER_03 28:59

Um okay, so let's talk now about you've got a magazine as part of your mix. We really, you know, we got podcasting, we got AI search and PR and all this, but you're also still doing a uh magazine. How does that fit into your business?

SPEAKER_04 29:14

So when I started, I'm from New York originally and now live in Boston, but when I started here in mass with um PR, like I had no connections. So I was in New York for the relocated, I had no connections, and I was like, I'm meeting so many small businesses that have great stories. Like, how can I help them? And I went to Canva and I, you know, this was like 2014. I went on Canva and I made a magazine, and it was originally for people that were just on my podcast of stories I was sharing, and it absolutely like outgrew my podcast guests, it went international, and I was like, wow, like it kind of like outgrew me. And so it was just my mom and I that put it together for a long time, and then um I decided to go down to once a year because it was a huge project. Um, so now I have a graphic designer and I we just continue to grow, it's really exciting.

SPEAKER_03 30:05

So you still do like a paper print version of this magazine? Totally do, yeah. And like who do you who do you send it to? Like how does this get distributed and what how do you decide?

SPEAKER_04 30:15

Great question. So I think the reason I've survived as long as I have is because I print on demand. I print for events that I do for launch events. I have subscribers, but it's more on demand. So I don't have to be obligated to print thousands of copies. So I think that that's another reason, cost-wise, that it's helped me a lot over the years. Um, it really like for me, it's just been a passion project. Like I started with small businesses, then went to celebrities launching business ventures they were doing or new businesses they were launching. Um, and it's just become a really like luxury. Like my goal is to be in private jets because I think that's the type of caliber of people that will actually want the tangible, glossy magazine with entrepreneurship articles, you know. So that's yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:03

Yeah, I mean, there it's like it also kind of anchors you in that traditional world of media that uh we've a lot of us maybe think, oh, the world has moved beyond that, but it's still a thing. People will pick up a magazine from time to time. But it also gets it just gives you that association with kind of a past age of media uh that's maybe a little bit nostalgic or something that people have that, you know, we've all had that experience uh at some point in the past, picking up and it's leaking through a magazine, and now you're you're kind of keeping that alive and connected to it.

SPEAKER_04 31:33

So it's kind of a cool legacy thing there to uh my goal, the only reason I don't even remember originally I started right because I wanted to help the small business like share their messages who didn't have contacts in media. So originally started there, and then I was like, this doesn't feel sustainable long term. Like, what's the real goal with this? So my goal really was to be a forced read in airplanes for print because that's the only place people read tangible magazines. So that's why for so long, at least from a print side, like that's where I want to be, because I can naturally like can see that not being huge overheads, and it's more like it's more containable, you know. So I have a ton of digital reading, that's where most of my readership is. But for the people that want the physical copies, that's how I can keep it living without feeling like I'm overextending myself.

SPEAKER_03 32:21

Yeah, and I mean if it's on planes, like people would leave it on there probably, like for exactly, exactly. And do you try to tie it into your like digital at all with like QR codes or is there any kind of oh totally? So are you measuring what comes from the magazine in any way?

SPEAKER_04 32:38

Like I should. I just because I just started originally as a passion project, being completely honest here, like I probably should to this day. Like I create bit.ly links and stuff. Like, I that's the probably the most trackable thing I've done over the years. Um, but outside of that, like it's just been a passion project, it's been a great networking tool for me over the years. Like, between that and the podcast, it's really how I grew my network to where I'm at today.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

So awesome. Yeah, I love it. I think it's it's really uh interesting to be maintaining some kind of legacy media like that in a way, but you know, trying to find a way to fit it in in the modern world that would still be applicable. Um cool,

TikTok Trends And The Next Move

SPEAKER_03 33:17

very cool. Uh so what's a PR or visibility trend that everybody's kind of chasing after right now that you think is maybe overhyped or a waste of time? Is there anything like that?

SPEAKER_04 33:27

Um, I mean, I think they work, it's just short-lived, right? You look on all the TikTok trends, right? TikTok trends, everybody from like a small individual, you know, teenager, you know, teenagers to celebrities that have their own businesses, Fortune 500 companies, they're all getting on these trends. And I think that it's allowing people to feel like they're part of something, no matter what your age is, no matter what you look like. I think that that's the beauty of that. I think the one thing though is it is really short-lived. So like I think it's good for a period of time, but that's all that it's good for. Do you know what I'm saying? So I would say, like, trend wise, like I think the TikTok trends are a great, really fun way to engage with a massive audience of all different types of people.

SPEAKER_03 34:08

Um but it's gonna be gone by tomorrow, kind of thing. Like, yeah, but it's a short ride, basically.

SPEAKER_04 34:14

Yeah, but you gotta be on while it's hot. You know what I mean? Like, that's the thing. If you miss it and it's two days later, it is too late because there's a new trend that's out.

SPEAKER_03 34:23

Yeah. So to being timely that's important. Respond quickly, absolutely. Uh so looking forward, what is uh kind of what's next for you? What's your next move? What's on your horizon? What are you thinking about?

SPEAKER_04 34:37

So um I'm actually creating a newsroom, so a digital newsroom. So I'm taking, I'm doing more editorial articles online now regularly. Um, that's kind of what I'm focusing on because I've done the magazine, I put my digital magazines online, but I think there's so much happening more regularly now. So I want to create like top 10 businesses to you know be inspired by this season or business launches because next on scene is like what's next, right? So I want to hyper focus on like what is next that you should know about in the entrepreneurial space and small business space. Because I feel like there's nothing out there right now that exists with that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:16

Yeah, very cool, very cool. And if people want to find out more about your offering and what you do, where should they go online?

Where To Find Jaclyn And Closing

SPEAKER_04 35:23

Yeah, thank you, Jeff. So nextoncene.com is a great place to access. We're really most active on Instagram. So next on scene or Jackie Zuck on Instagram. Um, but we're on all the outlets. But I would say Instagram is my favorite platform. So if you reach out there, it probably will be responsive.

SPEAKER_03 35:39

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. It's been a really fascinating interview, and uh I'm definitely gonna follow you online. Uh, if you're looking for digital marketing services or SEO or you want to show up at AI Search, check out EWRdigital.com. That's the uh sponsor of our show and the founder of our show. So uh once again, Jacqueline, thank you so much. I've really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you, Jacqueline.

SPEAKER_04 36:04

Thank you, great interviewer. Really appreciated it.

SPEAKER_03 36:07

Oh, thank you so much. Uh, I enjoyed myself. Uh, we'll see you online. Take care.

SPEAKER_04 36:12

You too.

unknown 36:13

Bye.